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MTL 46 and live sound

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1 MTL 46 and live sound le Mer 26 Juil 2017 - 9:55

Foca_Dacian


Hi, will Faital Pro 18HP1010-4 ohm version work in the MTL 46?
here are the T/S:
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Is it clean and flat enough sounding for live sound applications? ( all time music cover bands).
Is it as omnidirectional as a reflex subwoofer?(will I get as much bass on stage as with reflex subs?)
I would like to put metalic grill and acoustic transparent sponge over the whole front of the cabinet. Is it ok if I make the cabinet 20-30 mm deeper(keeping the internal dimmesions the same, only making the top, bottom and side panels deeper)?

2 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Lun 18 Sep 2017 - 11:15

Chris Kazvon

avatar
Hi there !

Still no time to see what the response looks like with this speaker Embarassed

For the other points:

Is it clean and flat enough sounding for live sound applications? ( all time music cover bands).
to me, yes Smile

Is it as omnidirectional as a reflex subwoofer?(will I get as much bass on stage as with reflex subs?)
yes, as any single-speaker subwoofer, it is omnidirectional (or nearly omnidirectional), you still get a lot of bass behind

I would like to put metalic grill and acoustic transparent sponge over the whole front of the cabinet. Is it ok if I make the cabinet 20-30 mm deeper(keeping the internal dimmesions the same, only making the top, bottom and side panels deeper)?

no problem, just be careful as the grill still may vibrate


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Chris Kazvon

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3 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Lun 18 Sep 2017 - 14:17

dorian64

avatar
Hello !

I can give my point of view on one point at least:
Is it clean and flat enough sounding for live sound applications? ( all time music cover bands).

For me it is as well, same answer as Chris, it sounds good in both disco and live application. I use a pair, I used it some times for live applications, and it worked perfectly Smile

4 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Lun 23 Oct 2017 - 15:43

Foca_Dacian


I see there is a peak in the frequency responce@160 Hz, what parametric EQ settings (Q,Frequency and gain attenuation)have you guys used to get rid of that?

5 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Lun 23 Oct 2017 - 18:01

mr one

avatar
It depends on how much subwoofers you use, frequency response will change with adding boxes, so correction will also change....
How much Mtl you have or want to build?

The best way is to measure the response of your subwoofers config.

6 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Jeu 2 Nov 2017 - 21:37

Foca_Dacian


I have two pieces at the moment, want to build 4.I will measure the response and see what it looks like.

7 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Ven 3 Nov 2017 - 21:14

Chris Kazvon

avatar
Hello again,

The peak is specific to this type of load, for example you'll have the same on the ESW 1018.

As the usual process includes flattening the responses of both the subwoofers and speakers before applying the filters, in this process yes we usually get rid of it Smile

But ! The more units you got, the less the peak peaks Laughing so the correction will be less important with 4 cabinets than with one


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Chris Kazvon

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8 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Lun 13 Nov 2017 - 17:16

Foca_Dacian


Is it ok if I make the horizontal port 5 mm shorter at the front end so that I can accomodate for the grill?
I wanted to put grill only on the speaker and built the MTL 46 as is in the plan,but I have changed my mind and want to put grill on the whole front of the sub.

9 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Jeu 16 Nov 2017 - 16:34

Foca_Dacian


Where should I put fonoabsorbant?

10 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Jeu 16 Nov 2017 - 19:00

LIAMDJ

avatar
Don't put fonoabsorbant, it's not usefull.

It possible to extend 1 or 2cm the face of the sub to put the grill Wink The response will not be very different.

11 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Ven 17 Nov 2017 - 9:10

dorian64

avatar
Is it ok if I make the horizontal port 5 mm shorter at the front end so that I can accomodate for the grill?

I would'nt suggest, because if you do so, you will change the tonality.
What you can do is to add a bar to fix the grill but a short one, like 5mm high and 30mm deep only, and not for the whole dept of the sub. I did it on mine, it holds perfectly fine and doesn't change the sound as only the exit of the port is impacted (it needs to respect the rule >60% opening however, grill and holders)

12 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Ven 24 Nov 2017 - 23:23

Foca_Dacian


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This is what I meant,the horizontal port is 308 mm deep in the plan, I need to cut 5 mm from it so that I can insert the metal grill, after the cut , the port will be 303 mm deep.
How much would this affect?
Worst case I only put grill on the driver as I intended in the first place.

13 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Lun 27 Nov 2017 - 10:16

dorian64

avatar
Ok I see. Well, for me it may not change anything.

14 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Mar 9 Jan 2018 - 12:26

Foca_Dacian


Hello again guys,

Can I use [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] above two MTL46's?

Also If I would make the MT121 TDA 68 mm shorter to match the MTL46's depth,how much extension would I lose?

15 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Mar 9 Jan 2018 - 13:13

dorian64

avatar
I see that MT121 starts only at 160Hz. I wouldn't recommand to have MTLs going higher than 120Hz, there is then a kick missing between MTL and MT121.

16 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Mar 9 Jan 2018 - 20:05

Foca_Dacian


I guess I'll just build two double 12 inch reflex tops+1.4 inch comps and use single 12 inch+1.4 that I have allready built as side fills (or delay lines ,depending on room).
I was looking at midhorns to have better dispersion control and not splay sound on the walls.I can't go with two way bass ,subs and kick is out of the question ,transportation and budget(for now anyway Very Happy )

I'll have all four MTL46 that I have built in a central cluster in front of the stage,in a cardioid array if necesary.
Have you guys tried cardioid setups using MTL46?

17 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Mar 9 Jan 2018 - 21:03

Chris Kazvon

avatar
hi,

I don't think that horn mid-tops are necessary with the MTL as it is not a horn load that "kicks far" like an MTH would

to me 2 speakers with double 12" above 4 MTL will be enough.

If you already have a pair, just try Smile


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Chris Kazvon

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18 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Ven 19 Jan 2018 - 14:10

Foca_Dacian


Is the 35 hz-24 dB/octave BW HPF recommended for using singles as well ? or just for a group of 4 coupled?

I'll add some pictures of the build tomorrow.

19 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Mer 7 Fév 2018 - 10:29

Foca_Dacian


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[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

These are some buil pics of the MTL46, will paint them soon.

20 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Mer 7 Fév 2018 - 10:36

Foca_Dacian


At the moment I will only use 1 piece / side to decide if I like the 18HP1010 from faital in this design so it will have the peaked response.
Regarding flattening the subs (getting rid of the peak at the high end), should I use the impulse response graphs with a dual channel FFT ?
I am pretty new with measurements.
I have an external sound card(Steinberg UR22), condenser measurement mic (Superlux ECM 999) and REW software.

21 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Mer 7 Fév 2018 - 12:33

ludo_as

avatar
Hi,
did you start doing simulations, or did you go to random ?



Dernière édition par ludo_as le Mer 7 Fév 2018 - 13:12, édité 1 fois

22 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Mer 7 Fév 2018 - 13:12

Chris Kazvon

avatar
Hi,

Pink PN + FFT Smile


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23 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Mer 7 Fév 2018 - 15:06

Foca_Dacian


ludo_as a écrit:Hi,
did you start doing simulations, or did you go to random ?

I have no ideea on how to simulate the MTL 46 , becouse it is a hybrid so i don't know where to start.I just compared the T/S of the original RCF driver with the T/S of the 18HP1010 and they are pretty similar so I decided to use it.If I do not have good results, I will sell the and buy the original RCF drivers.I had the faitals in reflex design but I needed more output.

RCF:

Fs:33 Hz
DC resistance:4.8Ω
Mechanical factor:7.6
Electrical factor:0.30
Total factor:0.29
BL Factor:24.6 T · m
Effective Moving Mass:182 g
Equivalent Cas air load:268 liters
Effettive piston area:0.122 m²
Max. linear excursion (mathematical):8.5 mm
Voice - coil inductance @ 1kHz:2.4 mH
Half-space efficiency:3.09%

FaitalPro 18HP1010- 4 ohm:

Fs 35 Hz
Re 2.7 Ohm
Qes 0.32
Qms 7.8
Qts 0.31
Vas 202.8 dm^3 (7.16 ft^3)
Sd 1134 cm^2 (175.77 in^2)
Xmax (4) 9.75 mm
Xdamage (5) 21.9 mm
Mms 186.2 g
Bl 18.4 N/A
Le 1.26 mH
Mmd 163.5 g
Cms 0.11 mm/N
Rms 5.24 Kg/s
Eta Zero 2.59 %
EBP 109 Hz

24 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Mer 7 Fév 2018 - 17:53

ludo_as

avatar
ok, give me the internal dimensions of your MTL46, I simulate the HP versions

25 Re: MTL 46 and live sound le Mer 7 Fév 2018 - 22:15

Foca_Dacian


These are the internal dimmensions, as in the original plan.

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